Over on Anti-Strib:
Doug whines that we tried to educate the Indians, but what choice did we have? Their acts of terrorism against the settlers and the military assured that they could no longer be allowed to roam at random over other people’s lands. Their poverty-based societies filled Indians with a deep desire to steal and kill at will. The only alternative to integration was extermination. Andrew Jackson reached this conclusion and rode this issue to the White House. He was veteran of the many wars with the Indians and had no illusions about the Indians.
So skip the noble savage crap. American Indians were domestic terrorists permanently stuck in the Stone Age. Even the God Damned French contributed more and managed to create a better society than the humanoid animals that once roamed our continent.
Labels: Dirt worshippers, food stamps, Indians, Mad Dog
An anonymous commenter on the blog tried to threaten Tracy's work.
The best answer to nonsense like this is more speech refuting it - not trying to go after Tracy at his job because you disagree with his opinion.
The post did get lots of comments - and Tracy probably used the language he did to generate lots of comments:
Sorry,Tracy, your critics are right. You paint with too broad a brush. You need to go read about the Algonquians that met the Jamestown settlers and about the Iroquois in NY. To Europeans they appeared as savages (still do), but their culture was, while often violent, also sophisticated in many ways. It was also quite well adapted to North American flora and fauna, which baffled Europeans for a couple generations after they arrived. Shit, 80% or so of the original settlers in Jamestown died in the first 10 years, many of starvation.
Also, kimosabe, don't forget what Europeans were like before the 19th/20th century. Some Indians were probably more successful in their environment and more sophisticated culturally than Russian serfs, for example. London was pretty fucked up unless you were wealthy. Remember the Smallpox and Plague? European wars were pretty ugly, also. European advantages over Indians were in technology and in immunities gained by living in close proximity to domestic animals and in cities, which are not necessarily elements of cultural superiority. Incidentally, bison and are NOT domesticated.
Paco | 10.11.07 - 2:04 pm |
OK, you compare the plague, which was caused by civilization clumping in complex living units called cities to a knowledge of fruits and berries?
The crux of the argument is the definition of sophistication.
How can you even compare (let alone equate) the works of just one man, Leonardo DaVinci April 15, 1452 – May 2, 1519, with the entire collective output of the American Indian culture?
Too much ink has been wasted trying to avoid the cold hard fact the Indian society produced nothing of lasting value. The left is especially wedded to the idea that some intangible oral story is somehow equivalent to Oedipus Rex written in 700 BC?
The best you got is some totem poles as many animals are capable of mounding dirt.
Seriously, is there anything in Indian culture that can even begin to compare to things like the Magna Carta issued in 1215. Bullshit!
This is why I hate the public schools, the ignorance of the importance of Western Civilization coupled with Liberal moral relativism that elevates clearly inferior cultures to equivalent or superior status to our own.
I refuse to give in until someone produces anything created by the American Indians that has any historical significance or lasting value.
Tracy Eberly 10.11.07 - 2:31 pm |
Tracy, my problem is that you're moving your goalposts. In your post, you said very incendiary things like, "American Indians did absolutely nothing. They didn’t build any temples or pyramids." Then, when presented with evidence that they did do those things, you say they didn't have a DaVinci.
I'm perfectly comfortable with saying that civilizations evolve and progress over time. I just think it's stupid to insist that civilizations everywhere must all evolve in synch or else the lagging civilizations deserve to get wiped out by war and disease. That view overlooks things like differing levels of resources or that the Old World had a 6000 year head start in developing agriculture and the lifestyle that goes with it.
Also, the New World was completely isolated from the Old. Revolutionary ideas like agriculture and writing were only invented a very few handful of times in history. For example, neither agriculture or writing was invented in Europe. They both were invented in the Middle East and transmitted their through trade and conquest.
Elizabeth | 10.11.07 - 3:38 pm |
More comments here.