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Thursday, December 06, 2007

Logical One Silent on Question, but Savage Republican Tries to Explain

From the comments to our previous episode on Cindy Whitehair, the Logical One and True North "nucleus".

Savage Republican said...

I let LL answer what her meaning was herself.

But this is a common false claim against Christians.

No one is calling for the Death Penalty for sin.
The Bible says the penalty for sin is death.
As a Christian we know that the penalty has been paid for all who believe by the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Thus John's statement not that unbelief is the only sin, but that without belief there is no guarantee of forgiveness.

So no one is calling for death penalty for anyone.
But also is not suggesting that just because our sins have been forgiven that we continue to sin.
Though as a believer we know that we all sin and all continue to ask for forgiveness.

This is not that hard to understand.
The bible is pretty easy to read, suggest you do it sometime.

9:18 PM
Savage Republican said...

Also Markh there are other sins mentioned in John.
Adultery for one (John 8)
Jesus forgives her sin but also commands her to leave her life of sin.
John 8:11
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin.

John has many mentions of the law of Moses and how Jesus paid the price of the law.

9:38 PM
Avidor said...

What do you think Jews should do about Leviticus 20:13?

7:51 AM
Savage Republican said...

avidor, that is a good and difficult question for a Christian to answer.

My understanding is that they are still bound by the Law.

As a believer in Christ, my obligations to ritual laws have been fulfilled with Christ's coming and my debt to moral laws have been paid with his death (though I am still required to obey them, with the help of God). I also am not required to do those things to identify myself as part of God's chosen people (The, I will be your God, you will be my People part) - again, because my belief in Christ and his resurrection has full filed those promises in the covenant.

Our Jewish brothers are bound by the covenant God made with them and the duties and rituals proscribed.
I would ask your Rabbi what is needed for those who have not kept the covenant.

That is the great strength I have from my knowledge that my debt has been paid. I do not have to worry if I will be forgiven, for I know it is has already been granted. (But remembering the command to "leave your life of sin')

For those who do not believe, I pray for them, knowing that without belief, I have no guarantee of anything.

Hope that answered your question.

8:27 AM
Avidor said...

Sorry, I'm still confused...

If Leviticus is irrelevant for Christians, why mention it?

1:34 PM
Savage Republican said...

Leviticus is not irrelevant, it is fact very relevant.
It there was no law, then what do we need forgiveness from?

We are still bound by law (part of which is put forth in Leviticus) and the penalty still apply.
Just they have been paid for by the blood of Jesus who paid the price for our sins.

Thus for a Christian to ignore the moral laws is to both diminish the sacrifice that was made for us and to dishonor that sacrifice.

We both forgiven for our sins (because the penalty has been paid) and asked to leave our life of sin.
Through the sacraments we acknowledge our need for forgiveness and remember the sacrifice that granted us forgiveness.

But just because we are forgiven does not remove the law.

As a poor analogy:
If a bank forgives my debt or someone else pays it for me,
It does not mean I did not have a debt and that I was not required to pay it. But because someone else paid it, I am not required to pay it myself.

(To keep from repeating myself, please reread my third paragraph that starts "As a believer in Christ" and talks about forgiveness and but also the need to follow the law)

1:57 PM

Savage Republican - are you speaking for the Logical One here, or are you speaking for yourself?


Savage Republican said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Savage Republican said...

[Deleted previous to correct a typo]

"Savage Republican - are you speaking for the Logical One here, or are you speaking for yourself?"

Please Scroll to the top portion that you cut and paste. It says:
"I let LL answer what her meaning was herself.

But this is a common false claim against Christians."

So what I was doing was explaining what is the common understanding of the bible concerning law and sacrifices.

Since no where did I see LL call for the death penalty but you mis-stated that her reference to Leviticus was a call for it.

I figured I would save some trouble and give you the short version of the explanation of why Christians are still required to obey God's law but are not subject to the penalties, since our sins were paid for by Jesus sacrifice.

Also, it appeared that Avidor had a question and the MarkH has a misunderstand of John that needed to be cleared up.

I rarely see or talk to LL, but I assume she can speak for herself.

But since the question you asked is already answered with her statement that she is a Christian, I figured I would save some time.

But just to be clear,
Your question:
"Does your quoting of Leviticus 20:13 mean you agree with its call for the Death Penalty for gays"

A: The bible says that penalty for many sins is death. But we are fortunate that we have a merciful God who paid the penalty for all our sins with the death of his Son Jesus.
But we must be thankful for this sacrifice and try and leave our lives of sin. Admitting our sins and asking for forgiveness.

Not forgetting that after granting forgiveness,
Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Not sure what I was not clear about, but I am glad to assist as I can.